Thursday, May 25, 2006

Stop the Bleeding at the Border

That should be the goal of our "secure the border" policy and it also should be the goal of our immigration policy.

First and foremost should be “building a wall or fence.” For those who say “that won’t stop them, and so it will be just a waste of our money”, I say, “Would it be fair to say that keeping your garage door down helps prevent people from stealing things from your garage?” Some would also say, “If they want in bad enough, then they are not going to let a closed door or fence stop them.”

But, obviously if it makes it harder, then it should be done. Anyone can see that if everyone in a neighborhood leaves up their garage door, then they are inviting people to do the wrong thing. If we leave the borders unfenced we are inviting them in, especially when we don’t enforce the current law and send them home. If a “virtual fence” works, then lets take down the fence around the White House and have a virtual fence there. Does anyone really think that having a virtual fence around the White House would be just as effective?

Here is the thinking that really gets me….”We either have to send them all home or let them all become citizens.” Says who?


Why not let the ones here get a “Resident Alien” card that allows them to become legal, but not say anything about becoming a citizen. Let them figure that out and go through that process just like anyone else that wants to become a U.S. citizen. No need to even mention "citizen" in the law, just "legal resident."

Sending them home is impractical and would be too disruptive, both to the families of those here and the economy. So, just keep anymore from coming in illegally by building a fence and then let the others stay after paying a significant penalty, but don’t put them on a path to become a citizen, just make them “Resident Aliens” who can stay as long as they can find the work.

The fence solves the terrorist problem and at the same time stops the bleeding of illegal aliens entering the country to find work without getting the proper ID cards.


For those who like open boarders, I ask..."What if a Billion Chinese just wandered in, would that be acceptable?" "Would they pressure the Congress to become citizens?" That's a large voting block that they might not be able to ignore.

"Would that be a good thing for us black, brown and white folks?"

14 Comments:

At 5:51 PM, Blogger Stalin the Shark said...

"Here is the thinking that really gets me….”We either have to send them all home or let them all become citizens.” Says who?"

Indeed, who is saying that?

:-), StS

 
At 3:08 AM, Blogger Free Agency Rules said...

STS,

Most of the plans in Congress have plans to make them "guest workers" who can be automatically put in line to become citizes, or at least that is my understanding.

I have yet to hear of a plan that talks about just making them "Resident Aliens."

Have you heard of one?


FAR.

 
At 3:13 AM, Blogger Free Agency Rules said...

P.S.

From CNS News: "Refuting predictions that the House of Representatives will refuse to pass a bill containing "earned citizenship" for millions of illegalsl, White House press secretary Tony Snow predicted Thursday that House Republicans ultimately will decide it's better to act than not act on immigration."

Notice the "Earned Citizenship" quote.

FAR.

 
At 2:19 PM, Blogger Stalin the Shark said...

There's an interesting article in WaPo about the dynamics within the R caucus, especially the ones whom we're targeting for destruction in November. I get the sense that they'd really like to kick the ball down the road and let the next Congress deal with it.

In the end, there will be some kind of pragmatic solution that amounts to amnesty/legalization and is called something else. "Earned citizenship" would fall into that category.

Nobody really knows what to do about 12,00,000 people; you can't deport that many without a full-scale humanitarian drama, and our pols don't like the kind of press/TV that would bring, so that's out. On the other hand, we also don't want a permanently excluded underclass.

It's my understanding that those are the parameters of the current discussion in D.C. My guess is that there will be much hue and cry and that the Senate bill will eventually become law if the issue is forced before the elections.

:-), StS

 
At 4:56 PM, Blogger Free Agency Rules said...

But what would you like to see?

Is there a solution that you think is fair and doesn't amount to ignoring the rule of law that was broken by this group of 12 mil, or more?

FAR.

 
At 6:13 PM, Blogger Stalin the Shark said...

That's not an easy question.

I think we need to start by realizing that illegal immigration isn't a new problem; we've known about it for years, and basically let it happen; by "we", I mean "we the people" through our elected governments. That creates a certain responsibility for us to treat illegals humanely.

I'd start with taking back control of the borders. That should have been done in any event, because we can't have laws that are dead letters. You would think that with all the talk about terror and homeland security, that would have happened anyway.

I'd also institute draconian fines for businesses that employ illegals, and have a couple of cases prosecuted (much as every year in late March, we read stories about IRS enforcement), to dry up the root cause of illegal immigration, which is demand for cheap labor.

Then the question really becomes what to do with 12,000,000 people. In a sense, true enough, they "cheated"; but again, we let them. We're not free from blame or fault here with our cheap strawberries. So mass expulsion is off the table, without even going into the practical difficulties that would create.

I'd create a kind of visa program for those here illegally to give them legal status. Allow them to stay for five years, during which time they must either pay a fine, or perform some kind of national service, and learn English and not commit any crimes. If people fail to meet those requirements, send them home. Those that do should be given the option of a lottery for entering the normal process of acquiring citizenship, which does take some time, or another five-year visa. And so on.

But that's just off the top of my head.

:-), StS

 
At 9:16 PM, Blogger Free Agency Rules said...

I don't think I disagree with any of that. Isn't that similar to some of the proposal on the table?


FAR.

 
At 10:08 PM, Blogger Stalin the Shark said...

Yars; now that I checked, that's basically the Senate plan, though the Stalin plan is a bit harsher, believe it or not.

Like I said, this thing is heading for a pragmatic and probably bi-partisan compromise; all bets are off as to how the hard right is going to react.

:-), StS

 
At 9:32 AM, Blogger Big Dave T said...

Thanks for visiting my blog. I just learned that a co-worker here died this weekend. She was a diabetic, not much older than I. Gives me more of an incentive to bring my blood sugar levels down.

I think I've visited your blog here before. Looks familiar. On the question of border security, I truly think that if you give a "path to citizenship" to the illegal aliens already here, no wall or fence is going to stop the flood of illegal aliens that will stream into this country also seeking their own "path to citizenship." My two cents.

 
At 7:23 AM, Blogger A Jacksonian said...

First and foremost the idea of deporting 12 million people at one shot is ludicrous. That said, there are empty seats on flights going to various Foreign Nations, trains, buses and empty space on transport vessels. A continuous stream *back* sends a message.

Building a REAL border control zone, with wall and offensive armament and a few hundred feet by the border given to NORTHCOM and making it a 'no pass' zone then lets the border patrol concentrate at legal areas of ingress and do full inspections keeps everything legal and does NOT militarize the border, only forces traffic to legal checkpoints. Any trespass into the military reserve is met with lethal forces. I have had it with the weekly or more frequent incursions of Mexican Federal Military and Police aiding drug cartels and human traffickers and violating the border continuously without ANY cause.

I support an end to ALL Federal subsidies, grants and any cash given to business and agriculture, including water use subsidies and tariffs on foreign goods. Federal tax money is being used to entice these employers and they are using illegal alien slave labor with OUR tax money. That must end.

Any use of illegal aliens for labor is coerced and forced work with threat of reprisal. It is known as slavery. We have a Constitutional Amendment that limits that to punitive functions of Law. These companies when found to employ such should be shut down and sold at auction. Piecemeal. I do not care what company it is, no matter how big or how small, they are violating the Constitution and should get more than a 'slap on the wrist fine'. Fines are added to the cost of the product and we pay more for them. So we pay for slavery. How nice.

Those municipalities and cities that have declared that the Law of the Land on illegal immigrants will not be enforced should be shut off from the Union and their Citizens given the choice of leaving or swearing an Oath to the Constitution and having their right to vote removed. They are breaking three articles and some number of amendments to the Constitution in doing so. This was called Secession from the Union in a former time.

Once the ending of subsidies, shuttering of businesses employing illegals and the building of the wall is well under way, the flow should start to reverse aided by Federal Forces from the Border Patrol, FBI and other groups to send these folks on a one-way ride *home*. And if we swamp the commercial carriers we can call in TRANSCOM: when it absolutely, positively has to get there with a 'Yes, SIR!'

A Nation's sovereignty depends upon its ability to regulate itself from outside interference and hold the Law of the Land to be in-force across that land. For something in the $5 Billion range you get a nice wall, sensors and a minor increase to a military detachment to work such remotely. You get safe border entry points. And by making businesses have to actually find labor, perhaps we can start employing our 7 million UNEMPLOYED American Citizens. Which is something NO ONE in politics ever addresses. We can NOT have an employment shortage if we have unemployed Americans.

For if we don't do these things, then the future does not look bright at all. I am *not* a conspiracy theorist, but the activities and actions taken so far are not leading to any good end.

 
At 1:22 AM, Blogger skyscraper said...

gosh, the more i read the more i become convinced that republicans are a bunch of uneducated, unenlightened, xenophobic, homophobic, mysoginist pricks!

a billion chinese, huh?

like you didn't one day come marching here, showing up at the door uninvitedly, and taking over the land.... hehehe! funny how you have such short memories.

what about you coming here and killing off a 'billion' of indigenous people--the real masters and natural owners of this land? and now having the audacity to claim this land is your and god-given?

do you think that god, whoever it is in your understanding, your wonderful and loving god, would commission your genocide of the whole continent and thousands upon thousands of years of culture, in order to give a bunch of criminals fleeing from the old world a 'blessed land'. if you believe so, then your god must be a selfish, white supremacist, inhumane, and unfair bastard--what else can i say? or is your god a white-god-for-white-people-only kinda deity?

do you guys know what logic and rationality is, at all? judging from your president--no, you have no idea. and none of your arguments, beliefs, and contentions have no logical structure whatsoever. this is so disstressing, to have opponents who don't even have rational reasons for their beliefs! ah, why can't we get some worthwhile opposition? ah, i guess the god is punishing us for being blasphemous.

 
At 8:26 PM, Blogger Maxjulian said...

I have an idea: why don't we give the country back to the Indians (who the country was stolen from) and let them decide who gets to stay or leave?

 
At 10:40 AM, Blogger Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden said...

09 10 06

Giving the country back to the Indians is a foolish proposition at best. Many of the tribes who occupied parts of this land are extinct and so much time has passed that you cannot reverse the arrow. There exist very few Americans who are willing to give up their material posessions. It has been over five hundred years. This is America now and it is the United States of America. I will give up nothing.

 
At 9:35 AM, Blogger Maxjulian said...

"I will give up nothing" Spoken like a true racist. It sickens me to see people of color towing the racist line of their Masters.

Who made those tribes extinct? Who exterminated them? There is no statute of limitations on (mass) murder, Mahndisa, in case you didn't know and because the accessories to a crime or the beneficiaries of a crime don't want to give back the loot, is beyond ridiculous.

This land does not belong to the white people who stole and superimposed their racist law on it, in spite of what you and other people think. If the Native American had had immigration law, your ass and most of these other devils would have been turned around (like you all do the Haitians) and sent packing.

And the crime is ongoing. Your pretzel logic and hypocrisy are quite impressive.

 

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