Monday, September 12, 2005

God and the Laws of the Universe

Why Arnold should Veto AB 849.

Some would wonder why Gay Marriage is a problem for Christians. Some would wonder why Christians seem to place so much emphasis upon the Ten Commandments and other Laws and Guidelines that we learn from the Scriptures.

The answer is easy. God understands the “Law of Cause and Effect” better than anyone. Simple as that.

He knows that if you “touch the hot stove, you will get hurt.” He knows it better than anyone dead or alive.

This is why he gives us the guidelines to live by in the Bible such as the Ten Commandments. He knows that if we truly want to be free we must avoid the consequences of bad choices.

He knows that if we steal, murder, etc, we will harm society and therefore harm ourselves.

So, he also tells us that if we commit adultery, we will help to bring down society, because we need a stable family unit to properly teach our children the value of staying together in a marriage.

This same caution is applied to homosexuality. “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” - Leviticus 18:22

He even says it is about “Cause and Effect” in the following caution about “unnatural affection” such as in this verse: “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.” - Rom 1:27

Recompense is to receive payment for something. Getting paid back for a wrong deed. Or, the Law of Cause and Effect catching up to us.

There is plenty of proof that broken homes cause problems for society, and isn't it interesting that the Bible has plenty to say in this matter. It is almost like God is saying to us, "I have given you a Bible to use as a guide for correct principles, if you choose to ignore it, you will receive recompense for your errors."

God doesn’t have to punish us. It will happen automatically through the Law of Cause and Effect.

Just maybe it is a bad idea to help the minority to force their will on the majority based upon some fake "group" rights. Does anyone care about the feelings of the people who hold marriage as an important social foundation that has roots in sound laws of nature, like the proper way to raise children.

Let's hope we don't have to wait for the "effect" part of the "cause" of ignoring the wise council of the Scriptures.

Isn't it interesting that the Jews, the Christians and the Muslems Scriptures all say homosexual activity is wrong? I know that the majority is often wrong, but then we aren't talking about peoples opinions, but higher and better opinions than that.

Even non religious tribes recognized that something was wrong and unnatural about homosexual activity. Even though some had allowed it, it was always looked down upon.

Activities are not rights. We can not say that any man that likes to fly airplanes, or any man that likes to kiss blondes, or any man that likes to kiss other men has an inherent right to.

There are rules to follow for all activities and as long as all males and females are required to follow the same rules for these activities, then we are being just and fair. (Not to mention possibly avoiding the consequences of the law of Cause and Effect.) All men and all women are required to follow the same rules regardless of their likes or dislikes. All men must marry a woman, and all women must marry a man, regardless of thier likes or activities.

All morals are not laws, and all laws are not moral. As soon as we start to think that the law should be revered as moral judgement, we have lost the insight into true morals and we have lost the spiritual battle with evil.

All laws should be moral, but alas, they often are not.


At 4:13 PM, Blogger Free Agency Rules said...

And I might add that all morals should not necessarily be law.


At 4:35 PM, Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

I do not agree or disagree with your post. What's interesting to me is your emphasis on the Old Testament. I once asked a born-again Christian friend of mine about certain Levitical laws that seemed oppressive and he said that Christians are not required to follow the Old Testament because Jesus created a new covenant. The following is a comment he offered on one of my posts:

The Old Testament is the Jewish Bible. It is the bible that Jesus read. Jesus was a Jew, as well as the apostles. The Old Testament prophesies of a coming Messiah ("savior"). Christians believe that Jesus is that Messiah. So the story of Jesus (the New Testament) is merely a continuation of the Old Testament. God sent Jesus to save his people (the Jews), and all the first "Christians" were Jews. At one point, during the early days while spreading the word of Jesus, his "salvation" was offered to non-Jews (Acts 10:27-48). Non-Jews were not held to the same laws of the Old Testament, since they never followed them to begin with. But even the Jews who chose to follow Jesus were no longer required to uphold some of the old Levitical laws (Kosher, circumcision, etc.) since Jesus created a "new covenant" with his people, replacing the old covenant (John 1:17).

At 5:22 PM, Blogger Free Agency Rules said...


If Christians don't follow the Old Testament, then why have it as part of the Christian Bible?

In Greek the word diatheke means "testament" as in a will or testament of what to do with property after death.

In Hebrew the translation is actually more correct in that the word means Covenant.

The Law of Moses was a lessor law and the new law was what Jesus presented the Jews.

It did not replace the law but fulfil it because of the Law of Sacrifice.

The Jews practiced the "Law of Sacrifice" to remind them that God would send his "best of flock", Jesus, to be sacrificed for the sins of mankind. Since Jesus was fulfilling that sacrifice then the "Lords Supper or Sacrament" would then be subsituted for the law of Sacrifice.

He said: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." - Matt 5:17

He wasn't getting rid of,(destroying), the Old Testament laws but just fulfilling some of them.

The "Thou Shalt Not's" of Stealing, Murder, etc. are still valid even though they are in the Old Testament.


At 5:29 PM, Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

Then why don't Christians keep kosher, circumcise, prohibit eating pork, etc.?

At 8:59 AM, Blogger Free Agency Rules said...


Even thou the Law of Moses was fulfilled, meaning they no longer "required" obedience we should still consider them sound advice because they are all based upon the Law of Cause and Effect.

We are finding out just in the last few years that people in various backward countries that do circumcisum have much less medical problems.

Part of the "cloven hoof" advise was also because of health risks as well.

So, basically much of the Law of Moses were "ordinances" that were required to follow until Christ came, while other parts that were "commandments" were meant for us to keep.

Ordinances like "sacrifice", foods to not eat because of being "unclean", meaning unhealthy, were part of ritual to keep their minds pointed to the day the Christ was to come by way of them asking themselves..."Now why are we doing this practice or tradition?"

Any way that is my understanding. I am still learning, so someone with more knowledge than I could probably answer it better. Much of what I just said is from my own studing and I am fallible.

Notice your other Christian friend said "some" were no longer "Required" also.

he said: "no longer required to uphold some of the old Levitical laws"

In any regard it is still about "Cause and Effect." God gives us do's and don't's to help us not have to suffer the consequences of not following sound advise, whether it be by Commandment or advise on foods to avoid.


At 10:12 AM, Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

The ordinances v. commandements distinction makes sense. That's the first time anyone has ever explained it so clearly. Thanks!

At 2:09 PM, Blogger Steve Grene said...

This has nothing to do with the previous comments.

You are aware that the Bible was written by a Man. Not anyone, or anything, else.

By worshipping God you are, by proxy, worshipping the man who created God.

Think a moment: What kind of man would create a being so powerful that all other men must obey him?

Someone with a lust for power, that's who. Someone who only wants power, and will do anything to get it, even if it means making something up to become important.

Reminds me of W.

At 2:36 PM, Blogger Roseville Conservative said...

Geez Mr. Grene, what do you have against God!?

At 3:24 PM, Blogger Free Agency Rules said...


You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it. I happen to think your opinion is wrong, but then that is my opinion.

According to most facts provable in court, there must be at least two witnesses who can testify about facts and then the jury is to consider them as fact until something else proves them wrong.

If a man writes about those proofs it doesn't mean that the events were made up just because another man writes about them, nor does it mean we are worshiping the man who wrote them.

The first 5 books of the Bible were written by Moses. Do we therefore worship him?

Much of The New Testament was written by the Apostles. Men who testified that Jesus was the Christ. Do we worship them?

There were 500 people who saw Jesus assend into heaven. Flavius Josephus, (a Jewish historian who worked for the Romans), wrote about Jewish history around 70 AD, told of accounts of the testimony of many who witnessed the works of the Christ.

Are we to disregard an unbiased observer like Josephus who wrote of more than the "two witnesses" who if in a court of law would be ruled as fact?

You offer conjecture and I offer witnesses.

There is proof of God for those who wish to be open minded. See the latest on what Steven Hawking had to say was "The Discovery of the Century" -Stephen Hawking

"....On April 23, 1992. On that day, a discovery was announced that, in the words of the British physicist Steven Hawking, “…is the discovery of the century, if not of all time.” This is remarkable because Steven Hawking has a reputation for understatement.

Michael Turner, from the University of Chicago, says the significance of this discovery cannot be overstated. They have found the Holy Grail of cosmology. As to how holy of a grail we're talking about, George Smoot, who led the team of 30 American astrophysicists who made the discovery said, “What we have found is evidence of the birth of the Universe. It's like looking at God.”

This article has the most revered scientists talking about the universe being "planned" and not just "occuring".

The proof that the Universe had a beginning and that the beginning was not really that long ago, completely shoots down the "Infinite Monkey's" Therom of random evolution of our Universe, because there isn't infinite time as was speculated. It also explains the "Cluster Galaxies" problems.

I hope this reply is taken with an open mind and not just dismissed.

We learn from those who cause us to consider our opinions as to possibly be flawed.

I have often considered the same senerio of conjecture you gave.

I went to work studing the sources for this view and then searched for rebuttals.

Just as in a Court of Law if you don't give equal weight to rebuttals, you are not going to learn the truth.

I present you with my rebuttal.



At 11:54 AM, Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...


Completely off the topic of this post. Lew Rockwell had an article yesterday that I think you will really appreciate.

At 1:44 PM, Blogger Free Agency Rules said...


The link didn't work but I found it anyway.

Good Article. While I am for free trade, I am also a big beliver that the free market will adjust to shifting resources from a manufacturing society into a service society, which is where I see this country heading. Soon the majority of jobs will be to provide service to those who own other service businesses. The ideal market place in my mind is where almost everyone is a small business owner.


At 2:57 PM, Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

The U.S. is undoubtedly becoming a service economy, but I am not so sure that is a good thing. A family friend is a rocket scientist (literally) who will probably retire in the next 5 years. He laments that there is no one remotely qualified to replace him when he goes and, since he does government classified work, it can't be outsourced. Technological innovation requires intellectual know how and, unfortunately, America is losing that edge.

At 6:07 AM, Blogger Lucy Stern said...

After reading the comments, I almost forgot what the post was about.

God set it up that marriage should be between man and woman, not man and man or woman and woman. There are natural consequences with this set-up. When you start messing with nature, things can get all messed up. Two people of the same sex can not have children in the natural way, it just won't work.

God set down the rules in his scriptures and we need to follow them if we want a society that will last to the end of days. If gay marriage creeps into our laws, then our children will hear that it is OK. They are already trying to teach this in some schools. I see it as just another corosion of our society. As you said, many other religions besides Christain, know it is wrong. I pray our country can get past this. I listen to some of the arguements for it and it makes me shudder.


Post a Comment

<< Home