Why a Jihad?
In a reply to a comment on Jen's Blog I explained why being in Iraq doesn't matter to the Wahabis, the radical Islamic Fundamentalists. So I thought I would turn it into a post since it is so important to understanding why.
It is all about a Religious War to them.
Abraham had two sons; Isaac and Ishmael.
Through the lineage of Isaac came David and the Jews and of course Christians.
Through the lineage of Ishmael came Mohammad and his religion called Islam.
The sons of Ishmael have always been jealous of Isaac and the fact that he was the favored son.
The Wahabis are a sect of the Islamic faith that is intent upon proving that their religion is the true religion. So much so, their plot is to "Blow up the Jews and the Christians" so that they might spoil what the Jews perceive as the first coming of the Messiah.
In bible prophecy it is the first coming for the Jews and to Christians the second coming of the Messiah.
He is to come to the valley of Megiddo, which is in the western portion of the Plain of Esdraelon 50 miles north of Jerusalem. It is there that the Messiah will fend off the invaders during the battle of Armageddon.
The Wahabis figure if they can make the valley of Megiddo void of Jewish life then they will have proven that the Jewish Messiah is fake and the Christian Messiah fake as well. Kill two birds with one h-bomb, er, stone.
There you have it. That is why they don't care if we are in Iraq or not. It doesn't change their plan to destroy or Nuke the Jews first and then us second. Their cry has always been "The Saturday people first, the Sunday people second." Either way they see it as victory for Islam, which is their only goal.
And now you know why they could care less about any land settlement or other negotiations or appeasement.
Being pacifistic will only make it happen sooner.
posted by Free Agency Rules @ 7:28 AM
17 comments
17 Comments:
Thank you FAR for the detailed explanation. I had only understood partial reasoning; you made it simple and consise.
fj
My Pleasure. :)
FAR.
RC,
I'll keep it up, but I could do more good if I had more Sharky's and JJ's.
Put me in Coach. I am raring to join the Western Alliance.
FAR.
How do you explain hundreds of years of relative harmony between the Muslim and Jewish communities (Spain, Turkey) as compared to the thousands of years of Christian persecution of the Jews (Rome, Germany, France, Poland, Russia)?
Also, how do you know what jihad is about? Do you know terrorists? Do you speak with them and ask them their views? Or are you just making up this b.s. as you go along? If you hate the world so much, why aren't you enlisted in the army where your services are so desperately needed?
intellectual insurgent:
said: "Also, how do you know what jihad is about?"
Read a few books about Jihad. There are plenty of them that tell of their aims.
Want a quote from one of their leaders....
"We have ruled the world before, and by Allah, the day will come when we will rule the entire world again. The day will come when we will rule America. The day will come when we will rule Britain and the entire world – except for the Jews. The Jews will not enjoy a life of tranquility under our rule, because they are treacherous by nature, as they have been throughout history. The day will come when everything will be relieved of the Jews - even the stones and trees which were harmed by them. Listen to the Prophet Muhammad, who tells you about the evil end that awaits Jews. The stones and trees will want the Muslims to finish off every Jew." Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris
Sounds like a fun loving, peace loving person, doesn't he?
There are plenty more like that one in speaches by their Mulahs.
Also, I have tried to enlist but I am too old. It would be fun to go back in as an Officer this time instead of a non-commissioned officer like I was in Vietnam. Yep, I am a Vietnam Vet. 1968.
FAR.
Those quotes sound like the Taleban freaks and Saudi rulers that the Bush alliance was so cozy with for so long.
Somehow, you being a Vietnam Vet makes all these posts make so much more sense. That's not an insult, but I applaud you for putting your money where your mouth is. I am sick and tired of listening to big mouth panzie ass Republicans who talk big about war, but don't enlist.
All that said, not all Muslims, not even the majority of Muslims are out to kill Christians and Jews. I am sure if I looked hard enough, I could find the crazies of the Jewish community who write the same inflammatory crap about Arabs, but they don't represent or speak for their community. Just like Pat Robertson did not speak for Christians when he advocated terrorism against Venezuela.
ii,
Of the 1.2 Billion Muslims, approximately 200,000 are Wahabis or behind them 100%.
Ask almost any Muslim if they believe that the Jews have a right to exist in the state of Israel and they will dance around like "Bo Jangles" and never answer the question directly.
This is a religious war, and the most religious zealots are by far the Muslim Extremists, you don't see any Christians or Jews beheading prisoners do you?
To the Wahabis and their supporters, (seen many terrorists lately that are not Muslim?), this is a battle to prove their religion is the real deal.
I have studied religion a great deal and have seen ample evidence of that.
Love and the Golden Rule should be the order of the day, and for most Christians it is, but for the Wahabis and their supporters it is the religion of death and hate.
You can't reason with a maniac. Especially a homicidal one.
FAR.
So, according to your math, that leaves 1 billion Muslims who are NOT Wahabi supporters. That makes it a religious war that is not supported by the majority of the religion's followers?
No, I don't see Christians or Jews beheading anyone, but I see Christians advocating terrorism (Pat Robertson), bombing abortion clinics (Eric Rudolph), torturing people in Abu Ghraib (last I checked, torture isn't kosher in the Bible), Jews shot dead Arabs who were praying in a mosque, riding a bus, etc.
In any event, is beheading the sole standard of judging who is a terrorist? Why keep the definition so narrow? To keep out the Jewish settlers who attack Palestinians indiscriminately? The State Department's definition of terrorism is as follows:
Activities that (a) involve a violent act or an act dangerous to human life that is a violation of the criminal laws of the U.S.(b) appear to be intended to (i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping.
All that said, I am a strong proponent of individualism and it is irrelevant if there are 200,000 supporters of Wahabism. There are probably just as many supporters of the KKK. The ones who matter are those who commit crimes and they should be punished.
Here is my post about a recent book that analyzed suicide bombings and refutes the notion it is a religious war.
http://intellectualinsurgent.blogspot.com/2005/07/dying-to-win.html
ii,
That is one guy’s book against many who say the opposite.
Sure there are other terrorists around the world that have their own agenda, Political, etc, but they are in the minority as far as the terrorists we are fighting in Iraq and the ones that are here to blow us up.
Were the Russians in Saudi or Iraq when these guys killed 300 students?
Osama says it is a religious war. "The Awaking begins" is how he put it.
The word Jihad is "holy war."
All the recovered documents, (computer files), that talk about reasons, always mention they are doing it to "kill the infidel" because of "his unholy beliefs."
They call it "decadence."
Are the Jews occupying Saudi or Iraq?
You think there is a hill of beans difference in those crazy "Hezballah" terrorists and the Al-Qaeda terrorists?
They don't hate us because of our view of freedom; they hate us because we don't believe in the Qu'ran.
From World Conflict Quarterly
"Al-Qaeda's contribution to modern warfare has been to reintroduce Hitler's genocidal war on Judaism. Modern Middle Eastern terrorist have previously justified their attacks against Israel as attacks on Zionism. Even the PLO recognizes the right of the Judaism to co-exist peacefully with the other religions and peoples of the world. However, when Al-Qaeda, Islamique Arme, Gama'a Al Islamiya, and Egyptian Islamic Jihad's announcement of their new coalition "The International Islamic Front to Fight Jews and Crusaders" they ushered in a new phase in modern terrorism. The new terrorist coalition urged Moslems around the world to kill all Jews and Americans, military or civilian, anywhere they could find them."
From this same source..."The significance of the new declaration of war by "The International Islamic Front to Fight Jews and Crusaders" was that no longer was Zionism the enemy, but now all of Jews and Americans were their enemy. The recent attacks on the World Trade Center vividly demonstrate the result of this new strategy of the non-recognition of Jews and Americans right to exist by Islamic extremists."
Get it? Their "strategy" is we, (Infidels / non-belivers), "don't have the right to exist."
Nothing to do with us being in Saudi or Iraq.
We are talking about Al-Qaeda aren't we?
FAR.
P.S.
The problem with the Billion remaining Moslems is we really don't know how much they support the terrorists. Do they answer truthfully when asked?
It is right in their Qu'ran to lie if it futhers Islam.
FAR.
The word jihad means "struggle" not holy war. It can mean many things other than holy war, like a struggle against one's sins.
If all these things about Al Qaeda are true, and they probably are, why did the CIA arm and train them in Afghanistan? Seems to me that is the better question out of all this. Explain why Bush and his homies got in bed with the Taleban for so long.
And, how are they getting all the arms they use in their battles these days? Arabs don't produce weapons, but the U.S. does, Brazil does, Israel does. Cut off the supply and these so-called "terrorists" will be shut down. Bombing the fuck out of every nation that says something GW doesn't like isn't the answer.
Isn't it funny that the Muslim nuts want to kill people who are infidels, while the Christian Evangelists use the same logic with respect to abortion clinics, gays, Muslims, Hugo Chavez, etc.? We shouldn't stoke that same fanatacism here.
The way to know if the remaining billion Muslims are sincere about not "supporting" Al Qaeda is their actions. Actions speak louder than words and this conflict would be a lot more bloody and ugly if the other billion were on board. Be real and stop judging people collectively. Muslims are people who want to lead a normal life like everyone else. Try traveling sometime and you may be pleasantly surprised.
You are not seriously suggesting that every Muslim on the planet is a liar because that is just filthy racism that is no different than Bin Laden thinking every American is a decadent sinner.
Here's the website of an Islamic organization in the U.S. that has bent over backwards to condemn terrorism.
http://www.cair-net.org
ii,
"Explain why Bush and his homies got in bed with the Taleban for so long."
Sometimes you side with the lessor of two evils.
"how are they getting all the arms?"
They are usually AK-47's which are Russian.
" Christian Evangelists use the same logic with respect to abortion clinics, gays, Muslims, Hugo Chavez, etc.?"
Just because we have a few nut cases, doesn't mean All Evangelists are in favor of taking lives at Abortion Clinics, etc.
No, I am not suggesting that all Moslems are terrorists, I made that clear that there are about a Billion of them that are not classified as such. I am just saying that we don't know how many of those are hiding there true feelings. I have some very nice Moslem friends that could be classified as "very good" friends.
I have lived in Austria, and Korea as well as many places in the U.S.
I have traveled to Tialand, Germany, France, England, Austrailia, and Greece.
Does that count as traveling?
FAR.
Bush siding with the lesser of two evils is siding with evil nonetheless. Very un-Christian.
Also, it's a tough call whether the Taleban was the lesser evil than Communism.
Just because there are crazy Christians doesn't mean they all are crazy. Same goes with Muslims. But just like your concern that "I am just saying that we don't know how many of those are hiding there true feelings." that could equally apply to Christians. Just because somone doesn't bomb an abortion clinic doesn't mean they don't otherwise agree with Rudolph's opposition to abortion. They may differ over the means, but not the ends. They may sympathize with his beliefs, but not agree on his mental state. There are probably plenty of Whites who sympathize with the KKK, but don't commit criminal acts on their behalf. It should be okay for Muslims to have that same breathing room.
For example, Hamas (besides recruiting suicide bombers) provides a lot of social services for Palestinian families because no one else does. Does that mean that every Palestinian who accepts their help condones suicide bombings? No. Perhaps some agree in fighting Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, but they don't agree with the tactics used by Hizballah. That doesn't make them terrorists.
It's important to travel the world and see that people are people no matter where you are. Your travels count. :-)
By the way, I enjoy these exchanges with you. It's refreshing to find someone in the blogosphere with a brain.
ii,
said: "Bush siding with the lesser of two evils is siding with evil nonetheless. Very un-Christian."
We also sided with Russia against Hitler. That was another tough choice.
Sometimes it is necessary to pick an imperfect ally.
ii said: "Just because somone doesn't bomb an abortion clinic doesn't mean they don't otherwise agree with Rudolph's opposition to abortion."
Very true, I think we can agree that both sides of the Christian/Islam unknown support could have valid points.
However, I think that you must admit there have been thousands of Christian churches that condem the Abortion bombings as wrong, but the Muslems have been reluctant to condem specific terror organizations as wrong. The few that have condemed, have refused to name organizations like Al-Qaeda as being bad.
Check your links for those Muslems that have condemed terrorism and see if they name any organizations.
Don't think they will. Could be wrong, there might actually be one or two.
Again, I agree with you that most Muslems are good people, at least as far as we can tell. You are right that we should judge peoiple by their actions, But have you ever heard someone on the news say..."I had no idea my neighbor was a murderer, he was the nicest guy?"
I hope that the majority of them begin to speak out against the specific organizations, and then we will really know.
P.S. I find your comments very refreshing and intellengent as well. As I said before, you are more than welcome here.
While I only have a Bachelor's Degree in Information Technology, I think I have a P.H.D. in common sense and wisdom. It seems to happen if you have been trying to study and learn for decades, or in other words, when you become an "old guy." :)
FAR.
You have to admit that the crazy neighbor who kept to himself and was a mass murderer is usually a middle class White guy with a Christian upbringing. I watch way too much Forensic Files.
If communism and fascism are both evil, than how does a Christian justify choosing one? Why not let the two fight it out?
Man, give Muslims a break. The leadership, especially in the U.S., is still getting its feet wet. Your standards for acceptable denunciations keeps getting more stringent. Does the same standard apply to America's denunciations of torture committed by American troops?
Also, why do they have to name names? Like I said before, some of those organizations do a lot of humanitarian work in addition to the crazy stuff.
With respect to Al Qaeda, it has become an empty hollow label that gets slapped on every bombing that it's almost hard to believe that some backwards, religious nuts living in caves in Afghanistan have as much power as America gives it credit for.
Have you ever read Animal Farm by George Orwell?
The point was that people are not always as they seem.
Yes, I have read both "1984" and "Animal Farm." Two of my favorite books. Some animals are more equal than others...right?
The problem with the "Torture" by U.S. Soldiers is with equivalancy.
Notice the word "severe" below.
The word "Torture" in the dictionary says "Infliction of severe physical pain", here is the whole thing...
"tor·ture (tôr“ch…r) n. 1.a. Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion. b. An instrument or a method for inflicting such pain. 2. Excruciating physical or mental pain; agony. 3. Something causing severe pain or anguish. --tor·ture tr.v. tor·tured, tor·tur·ing, tor·tures. 1. To subject (a person or an animal) to torture. 2. To bring great physical or mental pain upon (another). 3. To twist or turn abnormally; distort. --tor“tur·er n."
Now, if there were degrees of torture, like Level 1, Level 2, or Level 3 torture, then we could have a meaningful argument.
But when those who wish to equivicate "too hot, i.e., 110 degrees in their room, to Cutting peoples limbs and heads off, then it becomes silly.
They should name names if they are sincere, otherwise they are just not crediable.
Again I am not saying all 1 billion are bad people. Far from it, I am just saying that if you read the Qu'ran as I have and have seen how easy it is to see the intolerance built into their religion, it makes it easy for Muslems to lean that way.
Again I have many Muslem friends that I would give the shirt off my back for, but those are American Muslems who have tasted what freedom and the Golden Rule is like.
Mark my words, before we entered Iraq, Bin Laden and his henchmen have been plotting a bigger bang than 9/11. It will happen soon and it will be many times worse.
And the left will blame Bush. I believe it has been postponed because of our keeping them busy in Iraq. But then what do I know.
Some of my Muslem friends tell me about Mosques around the world teaching very young children to "hate" the Infidel. Especially the "Saturday people" and the "Sunday people."
People don't naturally "hate." It is a learned trait, and it is taught in the Mosques. Why is that?
FAR.
It's not just American Muslims who are tolerant. There are plenty of Muslims around the world who are capable of tolerance. If they weren't, the Jewish and Christian minorities would have been massacred already. I have read stories about Syrian Jews returning to Syria from Israel because they felt more at home in Syria. The Christian Palestinian community is far more aligned to Muslim Palestinians than to Christians from other parts of the world. It has nothing to do with "tasting" "freedom." It has to do with who you are surrounded with and what you learn as a child. American Whites have tasted "freedom" for centuries and how long did it take them to kick slavery and Jim Crow?
Agreed that the Quran has intolerance built in, but so do other religions. Have you read the Old Testament? That is no bundle of happiness and love. Why single out Muslims when other faiths have equally intolerant things in their books? Have you heard the speeches from the fanatic settlers?
I haven't been to all mosques, so I can't speak for what they do and do not teach. I am sure there are plenty who teach hateful stuff. Kind of like Pat Robertson.
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